They did try to change that with the MCU towards Infinity War

RockedBuzz
By RockedBuzz 17 Min Read

During the MCU, a thought was going through my mind as I watched these films. Death isn’t really a problem. It can’t be if they want all of these players to show up in Infinity War.

In comics the idea of death really has no value since each new iteration of super heroes can be from different Earths, different dimensions, what if scenarios and so on.

Contents
During the MCU, a thought was going through my mind as I watched these films. Death isn’t really a problem. It can’t be if they want all of these players to show up in Infinity War.They did try to change that with the MCU towards Infinity War. Even with the Infinity Stones, it is stated that if someone has truly died, then they can’t come back.Death like everythingis inevitable however in our escapistfantasy stories death is more or less aninconvenience rather than inevitableduring the run of the marvel cinematicuniverse i couldn’t help but think thatdeath wasn’t really gonna be aconsequence for the main charactersthey all had to be a part of infinitywar right so they’ll be fineuntil then however in 2019 there was adeleted scene from avengers end gamewhere the ancient one explains to thehulk that deathtrue death is permanent and that ifsomeone dies they are meant to die inall realitiesthis gave us pause and got us tothinking what could it mean for the mcuif death is permanentwell we’ve got a whole bunch of thoughtson that and we would like to share themwith you todayavengers end game was a game changer inmany waysit was the end to a decade-long projectthat spanned multiple differentstorylines and all of it culminated intothe highest grossingfilm of all time the two-part finaleitself was a web of intersectingstorylines with twists and turns and allthe other kinds of exciting aspectsyou’d expect in a hollywood blockbusterit also introduced a new spin onmainstream time travelrather than riffing on an establishedtime travel trope like back to thefuture or bill and ted’s excellentadventure end game offers upa different theory as hulk explainschanging the past doesn’t change thefuturewhile this idea of a more rigid timelinehas been explored beforeit’s never been brought to this large ofa stage to put it in hulk’s wordsif you travel to the past that pastbecomes your futureand your former present becomes the pastwhich can’t now be changed by your newfuturewhat ulk is getting at here is amodified multiverse theoryif you travel back in time that timeyou’re now in becomes your futuresince you are now living in that timeadditionally the present you leftbecomes your past since you were in thepresent but are not presently in thepastso by that logic the things you do inthe past can’t affect your now pastpresent yeah i know it’s a little hardto grasp butbear with me because we are going todiscuss a few other conceptsnow what does this all have to do withdeath’s permanence in the mcuwell for that we have to look at a nowdeleted scene from end gameduring the time travel heist to new yorkhulk runs into the ancient onefive years before doctor strange becomesthe keeper of the time stonethe two have themselves a chat and sheexplains the flow of timeand how if the stones are taken out ofdifferent timelines they’ll cause thedeath of those timelinesunless they are put back the deletedsegment comes when the ancient one tellshulkthat death is irreversible if somebodydies they’re always meant to diewhat this implies is that those who havetruly died either in battle or by beingsacrificed to make the soul stonewill have died in every reality and thuscan’t be brought backeven with the power of the infinitystones the rest of the scene plays outlike normal with the ancient oneexplaining that the infinity stones bindthe universe together and that by usingthem and then putting them backeverything could return to normal wellalmostthose who were lost gamora black widowand tony stark can’t be brought backarguably ever gamora and black widowwere sacrificed in order to get the soulstonetheir death is necessary for the soulstone to be presentsimilarly when tony stark uses thestones he can’t handle the immense powerthey generateand is obliterated while also willingout thanos and his presence in theuniverse[Music]now there are many reasons why scenesare deleted from filmsmostly it’s because of time but alsobecause it doesn’t quite fitthe portion of the scene from therooftop seemed too small to be deletedit lasted less than 30 seconds after alli think the scene was cutbecause it contradicts other establishedevents within the mcuit can be hard to keep track of all thecomings and goings in a massivecinematic universe like this one but themain event that stands out to me is theending of doctor strangethe ancient one says that death isirreversible but if anyone seen doctorstrangeyou know that death is very muchreversible doctor strange traps doramamuin anendless loop where he kills strange onlyto rewind to moments before and iskilled againwith the time stone strange essentiallymade his own mini timeline where he anddormammu would fightand strange would die over and overagain nowtell me how does this scene exist ifdeath is supposed to be irreversibleanother excellent example would be thedeath of visionduring infinity war scarlet witchdestroys vision in a desperate attemptto make sure thanos doesn’t get the mindstoneit appears to work but just like withdoctor strange thanos uses the timestone to rewind the clock to justmoments before the mine stone wasdestroyed and take it from the stillalive visionkilling him all over again again wevisit the continuing flow of timethe infinity stones bind the universeand keep the flow of time more or lessstraightskewing only when something like aninfinity stone is removedwe can deduce that doctor strangevisited dormammu in his dimensiona dimension that could exist outside ofthe established time streamif doctor strange were to die but thenreset after he could be kind of gamingthe system so to speakif he dies in dormammu’s realm and thatrealm has a different set of rules thanhis ownstrange could just be looping andrepeating an otherwise irreversibleevent like his death until his murdererdormammustopped that was part of their bargainafter allif we go with this model then theancient one’s statement on death’spermanence can still be trueafter all had strange been killed bydormammu permanently there would be noway to bring him backi think we have to look at the ancientone’s words with a less literal lensi think what she means is that ifsomeone dies in their timelineit can’t be reversed since they wouldalways have died in their othertimelines or universesin both the thanos and doctor strangeexample time was merely pulled back tobefore the time of deathhad time continued to flow vision andstrange would remain dead and nothingcould be done to bring them backwe have to remember that the time stoneis not like a time machineit only affects the flow of time thatmay sound semantic to some of you and toa degree it isto put it simply the time stone merelyrewinds time to a point and thencontinues forward on its intendedpath if we were to use thisinterpretation it does imply apredetermined path without anydeviationswhy was thanos defeated well because hewas always meant to be defeatedwhy did dormammu take strange’s bargainbecause he was always meant to take itthis also brings up a few other pointsabout the flow of time and thepermanence of deathif death really is irreversible as itkind of should be if we’re being honestwhat does that say about an afterlife ina world filled with space magic andliterally reality warping enigmassurely in heaven or some kind ofafterlife is realright well let’s talk about itwithout cracking open the theologytextbooks can we envision anafterlife for the mcu well technicallywe can since it is a fictional world andreally anything is possiblewishful thinking aside where dideverybody go when they got snappedthey were willed out of existence whichmeans they weren’t killed offbeing made into dust and floating off inthe wind isn’t exactly the same as dyingalthough the existential dread sure isthere though the best we can theorize isthe people thanos snapped were put insome kind of soul world outside of spaceand timenot dead but just kind of pushed out ofthe universe like they were clipped outof boundswe lost a lot of characters along theway before enduring end game but we willfocus on the characters we lost duringinfinity warfor vision we might be seeing somethingof an afterlife for the sentientsupercomputerrecently disney released a trailer forone division the first in a new line ofmarvel studio tv showswhile wanda may have been brought backafter thanos snap wasundone vision was not and remains deadafter end gamehow will they handle vision’s characterin wanda’s recovery from the trailer itlooks like it’ll be a real tripindeed vision’s a powerful syntheticbeing and wanda’s powers can bendreality to an extentone division might be a good look intohow the mcu portrays an afterlifeif one can exist for an ai gamora andblack widow are more cut and dry casesthey needed to die in order to make thesoul stones thoughmake isn’t really the correct term sincethe infinity stones existed when theuniverse was createdstill the soul stone requires a livingsacrifice in order to be brought forthas red skull explains it has a kind ofwisdom to itblack widow is sacrificed in much thesame way but a second stone is not madebecause of itit might be cool to think you can makemore than one infinity stone but therecan only be onefinally that leaves tony stark he wasdestroyed by using the stones to getthanos out of existencehe does dusted thanos and his forcesjust like he did with half the universethis means that if someone were boldenough and crazy enough to try andgather the stones again thanos couldcome back toothis isn’t dragon ball z whereeveryone’s fighting over the infinitystonesplus they are way harder to get thandragon balls while tony might thinkhimself larger than life he is stilljust a humanit is safe to say that we will not seetony stark in the mcu againmostly because robert downey jr leftmarvel after end gamebut because they couldn’t use the stonesafter tony’s snapthe remaining avengers had to put thestones back in the timelines they camefrom to close everything upand return things back to normalrelatively speaking contractualobligations aside it is clear that thereis more to the mcuthan the films if shows like onedivision gets proper attentioni think that despite the reality warpinginfinity stones space magic and whatnotdeath is still the end of a long journeyas the kids saylife is short but also terribly andinsufferably longwho’s with meand that is our discussion on death inthe mcuand just how permanent it can be do youagree with our assessmentlet us know in the comments down belowwe’d love to hear your thoughts andtheories as wellbe sure to give this video a like andhit that subscribe button for more cbrcontent  

In comics death is more of a pitstop than a final destination. This is just a general statement and is not really indicative of the entire medium.

They did try to change that with the MCU towards Infinity War. Even with the Infinity Stones, it is stated that if someone has truly died, then they can’t come back.

In a deleted scene during End Game, Hulk has a conversation with the Ancient One about the consequences of removing the time stones from other timelines. In that scene there was some extra dialogue where she explained that if someone dies in one timeline, they were meant to die in all timelines.

Since Thanos willed half the universe out of existence, they could be willed back, but those who died were always meant to die. That has created an interesting set of questions, and while it is a deleted scene, I think we can talk about what that means if Death is Permanent in the MCU.

We can also look at what an afterlife might look like. We can look at other comic book adaptations of the afterlife and talk about what happens to Tony Stark after his death.

Death In The MCU is PermanentDeath In The MCU is Permanent

Death like everything

is inevitable however in our escapist

fantasy stories death is more or less an

inconvenience rather than inevitable

during the run of the marvel cinematic

universe i couldn’t help but think that

death wasn’t really gonna be a

consequence for the main characters

they all had to be a part of infinity

war right so they’ll be fine

until then however in 2019 there was a

deleted scene from avengers end game

where the ancient one explains to the

hulk that death

true death is permanent and that if

someone dies they are meant to die in

all realities

this gave us pause and got us to

thinking what could it mean for the mcu

if death is permanent

well we’ve got a whole bunch of thoughts

on that and we would like to share them

with you today

avengers end game was a game changer in

many ways

it was the end to a decade-long project

that spanned multiple different

storylines and all of it culminated into

the highest grossing

film of all time the two-part finale

itself was a web of intersecting

storylines with twists and turns and all

the other kinds of exciting aspects

you’d expect in a hollywood blockbuster

it also introduced a new spin on

mainstream time travel

rather than riffing on an established

time travel trope like back to the

future or bill and ted’s excellent

adventure end game offers up

a different theory as hulk explains

changing the past doesn’t change the

future

while this idea of a more rigid timeline

has been explored before

it’s never been brought to this large of

a stage to put it in hulk’s words

if you travel to the past that past

becomes your future

and your former present becomes the past

which can’t now be changed by your new

future

what ulk is getting at here is a

modified multiverse theory

if you travel back in time that time

you’re now in becomes your future

since you are now living in that time

additionally the present you left

becomes your past since you were in the

present but are not presently in the

past

so by that logic the things you do in

the past can’t affect your now past

present yeah i know it’s a little hard

to grasp but

bear with me because we are going to

discuss a few other concepts

now what does this all have to do with

death’s permanence in the mcu

well for that we have to look at a now

deleted scene from end game

during the time travel heist to new york

hulk runs into the ancient one

five years before doctor strange becomes

the keeper of the time stone

the two have themselves a chat and she

explains the flow of time

and how if the stones are taken out of

different timelines they’ll cause the

death of those timelines

unless they are put back the deleted

segment comes when the ancient one tells

hulk

that death is irreversible if somebody

dies they’re always meant to die

what this implies is that those who have

truly died either in battle or by being

sacrificed to make the soul stone

will have died in every reality and thus

can’t be brought back

even with the power of the infinity

stones the rest of the scene plays out

like normal with the ancient one

explaining that the infinity stones bind

the universe together and that by using

them and then putting them back

everything could return to normal well

almost

those who were lost gamora black widow

and tony stark can’t be brought back

arguably ever gamora and black widow

were sacrificed in order to get the soul

stone

their death is necessary for the soul

stone to be present

similarly when tony stark uses the

stones he can’t handle the immense power

they generate

and is obliterated while also willing

out thanos and his presence in the

universe

[Music]

now there are many reasons why scenes

are deleted from films

mostly it’s because of time but also

because it doesn’t quite fit

the portion of the scene from the

rooftop seemed too small to be deleted

it lasted less than 30 seconds after all

i think the scene was cut

because it contradicts other established

events within the mcu

it can be hard to keep track of all the

comings and goings in a massive

cinematic universe like this one but the

main event that stands out to me is the

ending of doctor strange

the ancient one says that death is

irreversible but if anyone seen doctor

strange

you know that death is very much

reversible doctor strange traps doramamu

in an

endless loop where he kills strange only

to rewind to moments before and is

killed again

with the time stone strange essentially

made his own mini timeline where he and

dormammu would fight

and strange would die over and over

again now

tell me how does this scene exist if

death is supposed to be irreversible

another excellent example would be the

death of vision

during infinity war scarlet witch

destroys vision in a desperate attempt

to make sure thanos doesn’t get the mind

stone

it appears to work but just like with

doctor strange thanos uses the time

stone to rewind the clock to just

moments before the mine stone was

destroyed and take it from the still

alive vision

killing him all over again again we

visit the continuing flow of time

the infinity stones bind the universe

and keep the flow of time more or less

straight

skewing only when something like an

infinity stone is removed

we can deduce that doctor strange

visited dormammu in his dimension

a dimension that could exist outside of

the established time stream

if doctor strange were to die but then

reset after he could be kind of gaming

the system so to speak

if he dies in dormammu’s realm and that

realm has a different set of rules than

his own

strange could just be looping and

repeating an otherwise irreversible

event like his death until his murderer

dormammu

stopped that was part of their bargain

after all

if we go with this model then the

ancient one’s statement on death’s

permanence can still be true

after all had strange been killed by

dormammu permanently there would be no

way to bring him back

i think we have to look at the ancient

one’s words with a less literal lens

i think what she means is that if

someone dies in their timeline

it can’t be reversed since they would

always have died in their other

timelines or universes

in both the thanos and doctor strange

example time was merely pulled back to

before the time of death

had time continued to flow vision and

strange would remain dead and nothing

could be done to bring them back

we have to remember that the time stone

is not like a time machine

it only affects the flow of time that

may sound semantic to some of you and to

a degree it is

to put it simply the time stone merely

rewinds time to a point and then

continues forward on its intended

path if we were to use this

interpretation it does imply a

predetermined path without any

deviations

why was thanos defeated well because he

was always meant to be defeated

why did dormammu take strange’s bargain

because he was always meant to take it

this also brings up a few other points

about the flow of time and the

permanence of death

if death really is irreversible as it

kind of should be if we’re being honest

what does that say about an afterlife in

a world filled with space magic and

literally reality warping enigmas

surely in heaven or some kind of

afterlife is real

right well let’s talk about it

without cracking open the theology

textbooks can we envision an

afterlife for the mcu well technically

we can since it is a fictional world and

really anything is possible

wishful thinking aside where did

everybody go when they got snapped

they were willed out of existence which

means they weren’t killed off

being made into dust and floating off in

the wind isn’t exactly the same as dying

although the existential dread sure is

there though the best we can theorize is

the people thanos snapped were put in

some kind of soul world outside of space

and time

not dead but just kind of pushed out of

the universe like they were clipped out

of bounds

we lost a lot of characters along the

way before enduring end game but we will

focus on the characters we lost during

infinity war

for vision we might be seeing something

of an afterlife for the sentient

supercomputer

recently disney released a trailer for

one division the first in a new line of

marvel studio tv shows

while wanda may have been brought back

after thanos snap was

undone vision was not and remains dead

after end game

how will they handle vision’s character

in wanda’s recovery from the trailer it

looks like it’ll be a real trip

indeed vision’s a powerful synthetic

being and wanda’s powers can bend

reality to an extent

one division might be a good look into

how the mcu portrays an afterlife

if one can exist for an ai gamora and

black widow are more cut and dry cases

they needed to die in order to make the

soul stones though

make isn’t really the correct term since

the infinity stones existed when the

universe was created

still the soul stone requires a living

sacrifice in order to be brought forth

as red skull explains it has a kind of

wisdom to it

black widow is sacrificed in much the

same way but a second stone is not made

because of it

it might be cool to think you can make

more than one infinity stone but there

can only be one

finally that leaves tony stark he was

destroyed by using the stones to get

thanos out of existence

he does dusted thanos and his forces

just like he did with half the universe

this means that if someone were bold

enough and crazy enough to try and

gather the stones again thanos could

come back too

this isn’t dragon ball z where

everyone’s fighting over the infinity

stones

plus they are way harder to get than

dragon balls while tony might think

himself larger than life he is still

just a human

it is safe to say that we will not see

tony stark in the mcu again

mostly because robert downey jr left

marvel after end game

but because they couldn’t use the stones

after tony’s snap

the remaining avengers had to put the

stones back in the timelines they came

from to close everything up

and return things back to normal

relatively speaking contractual

obligations aside it is clear that there

is more to the mcu

than the films if shows like one

division gets proper attention

i think that despite the reality warping

infinity stones space magic and whatnot

death is still the end of a long journey

as the kids say

life is short but also terribly and

insufferably long

who’s with me

and that is our discussion on death in

the mcu

and just how permanent it can be do you

agree with our assessment

let us know in the comments down below

we’d love to hear your thoughts and

theories as well

be sure to give this video a like and

hit that subscribe button for more cbr

content

 

 

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